Feed aggregator
Sex Acts Online vs. in Reality: A Living Debate
Dear PapaBear
I'm silently following your site since, I believe a couple years, and even considered writing to you once on my behalf and once on one of my friend's, thought, never got to it in the end. Although, I always find your stance and well thought answers to be heart warming and enlightening.
Today, I hope you won't be too bothered by the fact that I'm not entirely agreeing with your own point of view, even if the subject doesn't directly concern me, I did asked myself those questions before, and would like to share my own thoughts.
First, I want to point that I'm in fact not at all into babyfurs and that the arts falling in this category totally irks me.
I never really thought deeply about the right or wrong of this subject before a big pro-con babyfur/cubporn bloodwar exploded on one very well known site of our community. And as the great separation took place and raged everywhere around me, I actually took the time to read and think about a lot of arguments between the protagonists.
In the end, and to save time, I do believe our community is stigmatizing a minority within a minority. If you take a step back, Yes, child abuse IS extremely wrong. I'm all against child abuse, and I do believe it should be severely punished, but here, we're talking about either art depicting those, or people pretending it to happen during their sexual intercourses or role play, when it really involve two consenting adults. If we assume this shouldn't be depicted, written or talked about, then the same should go with rape, murder, gore and stuff like that.
As horrible as child abuse can be, I don't feel like being raped in a dark cave, then having one's throat slit open and left to die in a dark alley is excusable as well in real life. This is not a less horrible situation, and yet, it is one which our community seems to sit with much better.
None of those appeal to me, but to compare to a subject I know a bit better, I am myself turned on by hypnosis and mind control. Both the playful and more aggressive and dark one. Most people wouldn't blink an eye at my fantasies, but if we go back to real life, how twisted can it become, to have someone sensory deprived, conditioned and reinforced until he/she's just a mindless slave ? Suddenly, my fantasy isn't that fun anymore.
Now, I see in the end of your answer, and just like many others, you explain how child abuse is horrible in real life, and really, it is. But, unless mistaken, I believe we where talking about the imaginary part of this, be it playful, or indeed, quite naughty.
To me, in this debate, almost each time it appears anywhere, we're entirely missing the point, and are associating each person getting turned on by this with a real life pedophile. Which would make any people getting off on gore a real time murderer, every feral fan a real time zoophile, and so on. It would make me a real life criminal as well.
The way I see things, we don't chose what arouses us, and depending on too many factors for us to even keep track or realize, we end up with the qualities and quirks and well, kinks we have.
To me, the real question, the heart of the problem is how responsible we are. Keeping our fantasies separate from the real life, you can't punish someone for being aroused by animals, rape, murder, violence, blood, sickness or children, as disgusted as you can be at the idea. But we, humans or fur in heart are not creature entirely made of black or white. What matters for real is being able to keep ourselves in check. Judging or banning those only fantasizing about it, well, that will not prevent some of those having this interest to one day commit the irreparable, because yes, that will happen, just like some fantasizing about rape or murder will one day act on those. Or some having the same interest as me ending up using alcohol or drugs to rip a non existing consent to a weakened victim. And that's what matters in the end.
I actually believe being able to talk about it and share might even give some of the weaker ones the steam off needed to never fall that low. Some form of catharsis if you see what I mean.
Anyway, this was a terribly long response, and I apologize for taking the time to comment here only to state a different opinion, but this is a subject I got plenty of time and occasion to think about and I felt it was relevant to be shared. thanks for those managing to read all of this, and my sincere salutations to you, papa bear!
Howard
* * *
My Dear Howard,
Thank you so much for your letter. First of all, it reinforces my policy that welcomes dissent on this website. People who write in countering something I’ve said provoke lively and thoughtful debate, which is useful for everyone concerned, including readers of this column and yours truly.
Let’s just start by saying that, even if you might not think so, I agree with everything you have said in your letter. I think you might have misunderstood me somewhat—or, perhaps, I didn’t make myself clear—thinking that I believe babyfurs are all mentally troubled somehow. I did note that, for the most part, babyfurs enjoy the innocence of depictions of very young furs in art, and I could also understand how some adults would find wearing diapers a kind of psychologically and emotionally comforting practice.
Then I also noted, however, that some people who are into this do have a serious problem that can only be called pedophilia and that pedophilia is wrong—to which you agreed.
In your argument, you say that there are furries (and people in general) who find depictions of young children having sex with each other or being sexually molested by adults to be cathartic, releasing their own desires so that they do not commit these acts in real life. I think the jury is still out on that one. In my opinion, that can go one of two ways: either the way you say, in which it calms the person with such desires; or, just the opposite, it feeds their lust and they begin to become dissatisfied with just watching these things online and want it in real life. We have to be very careful here, as the human mind is an unpredictable thing.
Furthermore, you note that if X-rated babyfur art should be considered bad, then so should depictions of rape, murder, etc. I agree, mostly. These are all the same kind of pornography. People find such images stimulating or cathartic for various psychological and emotional reasons too lengthy to go into great detail here because each case is different. Briefly, though, some people might get off on violent scenes because they have anger issues, but sometimes it might be for the same reason that people enjoy horror films—the adrenaline rush combined with the knowledge that one is safe and sound. As for fantasies of being raped or hypnotized or being made a slave, these fantasies have to do with control issues. Specifically, people who are stressed and burdened with the chores and responsibilities of everyday life fantasize about giving up all control, including body and mind, to someone else. This can, in fact, be quite therapeutic.
But what we are getting into here is a very core issue that is extremely relevant in our digital and virtual reality modern life: how do we separate fantasy from reality? Or, even, should we separate them?
One should avoid the potential trap here of the reductio ad absurdum that the oh-so-ridiculous Pat Robertson committed when he recently asserted that videogamers who shoot and kill characters in a game are literally guilty of murder (see http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/07/pat-robertson-murder-committed-in-video-games-is-no-different-than-real-life-murder/). That’s just imbecilic. Similarly, furries who fantasize about acts that would be considered sex crimes if they were committed in real life are not actually guilty of a crime. Papabear has participated in things in role play and such that I would never, ever do in real life. (And, as I noted in the original letter, the law says that artistic depictions of such acts—in other words, not showing real people—is not a crime).
It all comes down to who the person is tapping away at the keyboard and gripping the mouse. Are they emotionally and psychologically stable, or are they a bit off-kilter, vulnerable to the stimulations they see on the computer screen? As you said, “To me, the real question, the heart of the problem is how responsible we are.” Well put.
This is something we all need to be aware of. The people who should be responsible are not only the ones viewing the art but also the ones creating it. I’m not saying we should ban or censor babyfur art (I am completely against censoring the arts), but we should be cognizant of the potential effects of what we do, just as with everything else in life. We do not operate in isolation. Everything we do has the potential to affect other people in either positive or negative ways. We should all keep that in mind.
Perhaps that is the main lesson here for all my readers.
Thanks again, Howard!
Papabear
Could Furries Set Up Some Kind of Independent Furtopia?
I registered /r/furryfandom to prevent slander.
FC-144 Cha Cha Cha Chia Dicks
KnotCast: Episode 234 – Hither and Yon
Financial/Parental/Urgent Help
Okay so.. This is going to be a TL;DR post for a lot of you so the short version?
Parents are fucking me over, dumping a lot of financial things on me that they KNOW I can't afford then refusing to help me pay for it.
My FA: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/believer
Long Version:
Oct. 15th:
EDIT:
Just thought I would add in some more information so people know a LITTLE more about the situation at hand instead of being left in the dark or whatever.
This has been an ONGOING thing that my father's been doing to me since I was about... 2-ish years old. I have suffered a LOT of emotional, mental, physical, verbal, and-- depending on how people would view it--sexual abuse from my father. I have constantly been told that I'm a failure, a good for nothing, a waste of space, a stupid sociopathic bitch, a waste of time, a disruption to the househole, and a slew of other things (including: "WELL. WE LOVE YOU, BUT.... WE DON'T LOVE YOU FOR WHO YOU ARE!" four years ago on October 31st, 2009 at 9:15am). My father and mother will deny all of this until they are blue in the fucking face just because they know it's not socially acceptable to treat your child like this in any way, but tell their friends that I'm lying (and apparently talk shit about me to their friends) just so that they can save their faces.
(I've already proposed to them the idea of me paying to stay here, but it was only $300 a month when I suggested it and they declined for MONTHS and now my dad pulls this bullshit? I offered that when I KNEW I had a job and was able to pay for things. I am more offended and pissed off than you can imagine that NOW he wants to start charging me 3-4 times as much as I was offering when I DON'T have a job.)
My father works for Boeing making WELL OVER $100 an hour and my mother is a stay at home mother. They both adore my brother more than me and it's painfully obvious in the way that they speak to/treat/spoil my brother while condemning me to being worth nothing more than the manure that my mother puts on the flowerbeds in the spring. I was the one who made straight As and Bs in school, was in honors classes throughout my school years and my brother was the one who made Cs, Ds, and Fs. But he was in band while I was the one who was interested in art. My parents have never supported me in my artwork for the last 14 years that I've been doing it. They also have told me since I turned about 5 that they refused to help me pay for college and that I was going to have to pay for it. They never said anything like this to my brother and are currently helping him pay for college right now. I'm pissed more than I care to admit.
My father also used to beat me across my bare ass until I bled for things that I didn't even do or things that were only mildly "offensive." Like I accidentally knocked my brother's mug off of the kitchen table when I was little because I didn't know it was there. My brother starts crying and my dad immediately gets out his belt, yanks down my pants and underwear and whips me across my ass until I can feel it bruising and bleeding. Then he yelled at me for an hour and grounded me for two months. All because of something I did on accident. I also have suffered dislocated jaws just because I was 1-2 minutes past curfew because either traffic was bad or we had to get gas or one of the lights around town lasted a little longer than it should have so late at night (as if 9 pm is late, but Huntsville, AL, mang).
The parents originally wanted to kick me out of the house at the age of 18 even though I could not get a job, you can't rent anywhere unless you're the minimum age of 19 so they VERY reluctantly let me stay. But once I lost my college scholarship because of jealous twats of art teachers? Aaaahhahah. I was practically kicked out of my house. That's when I went to go live with my now ex and after he and I got divorced my parents made it painfully clear that they didn't even want me moving back in and that I should just live in a car somewhere in an abandoned parking lot even though I didn't/don't HAVE a car.
And well... Here we are now. Yay. -waves flag around- I keep hoping that I will get called to substitute at some point this week. :/ THAT'S my job, but apparently my dad doesn't consider that a job at all and I'm still a useless fuck.
As regarding the last job I had working at a secondary loaner, I DID NOT WALK OUT. I had called the temp-agency lady who got me the position and proposed to her that maybe, since I kept getting calls to sub, that I should go and do subbing, but that I would let her know by the end of the day. WELL. I had an emotional breakdown two hours before I was supposed to leave and left early because I kept crying at work (lots of stress going on) and when I called the lady back to tell her that I would continue on doing it, she told me that she had spoken with the head guy who is down in Birmingham, AL, and the dude ended the assignment. So, no, I DID NOT fucking walk out on that job and any motherfucker who wants to tell me that I did will get my foot shoved so far up their asses that they can TASTE the rubber sole of my shoe.
Also, saying, "Hi, this is <my name> working for <company> regarding <so-and-so's> late car payment. When they get the chance, they need to call me back at <phone number>. Thanks! And have a great day! <3" or variations thereof for 9 hours a day on voicemail machines gets real boring, real quick. Especially because of someone like me because my father beat it into me that if I'm not doing something, then I'm a failure and I deserve to starve. So.
/endit
Dad's a dick. Pretty much told me that it's my own damn fault I don't have a job. Told me that I have to pay him $250 a month for rent that goes up by $50 every month. On top of that I also have to pay $250 a month for the car payment. As well as $100 for my phone, $100 for car insurance, $15 in internet, and a whole bunch of other things that will apparently end up equating to like... $900 a month. I can't afford that if I don't have the money and the only way I can get the money is if I have a job or get it from commissions, but people don't want to buy artwork from me. I can't get a job because I don't HAVE 3-5 years experience because no place will hire me because I have some amount of college credits and that severely hinders me. McDonald's won't even hire me because of the fact that I have college credits. My dad says I walked out on my last job when I DID NOT. And he's like, "Lol, everything's your fault!" He's just like everyone else who is telling me that I dropped out of college when I DID NOT. I couldn't afford college because my father makes too much money and no place would hire me so that I could make money to pay for college. My father refuses to help me pay for anything and he says he's "helping" me pay for college by opening up an escrow account where he will put the $500 a month I make from my ex that I will be using to help pay for part of the $900 a month to fund my college education.
And if I fail to pay that $900+ a month?
My phone and internet get taken away from me and I get kicked out of the house. I also lose the car so I will have to walk to my work if I ever get a job. And I live in Madison, AL. I would be walking on highways and freeways which is very dangerous and my parents could give a rat's ass.
I don't know how much longer I will have phone and internet because I pretty much just screamed at my father that, "IT'S ALL MY FUCKING FAULT. IT ALWAYS FUCKING IS. EVERYBODY BLAME CLAIRE BECAUSE EVERYTHING THAT EVER GOES WRONG IS ALWAYS HER DOING," then threw my phone across the living room, stalked into my bedroom and slammed the door shut so hard it bounced out of it's frame a few times until it finally stuck and I locked my door. He was telling me that everything that ever goes wrong is always my fault and blah, blah, blah. He's telling me that the reason I can't get a job is because I'm not applying or anything. What he doesn't know is that I spend 14 fucking hours a day looking for a job and just... Ugh. I can NOT help it if people only want to hire those who only have 3-5 years of job experience for entry level jobs. I can only put the ball in someone's court. It's THEIR job as hiring employers to contact me. I can only contact them so many times before I get told to not ever call back.
And I just.... I am crying so hard you guys don't even know. I can't see my computer screen and I keep crying harder and harder. I need help and I don't even know what to do. I can't do commissions because no one will buy them from me and just...
What do I do....
Oct. 22nd:
This shit just keeps getting better and fucking better for me. Mom made me an appointment for the dentist without asking me. I will end up getting slapped with $550 in fees because the cleaning was $300 and the filling I'm apparently supposed to get will be $213.
So yea. I REALLY need commissions you guys. This is getting fucking ridiculous. I CANNOT afford any of this shit and I am at the end of my fucking rope. I might be able to handle a large amount of stress, but this is getting to be too much and it's getting harder and harder for me to even get out of bed anymore. All I want to do is sleep all fucking day.
My parents won't help me pay for this and I don't have a job so there's no way for me to save up enough money (beyond what I have saved up for college) to even pay this off.
I'm just... going to go sit in my corner and twiddle my thumbs, now.
submitted by Telorian[link] [12 comments]
Episode 234 - Hither and Yon
Hey all. A few days ago I posted a link to my Furry-themed Graphic Novel, The Shuttered City, and got a positive response. Now I need your help to complete it! Please check out my Kickstarter.
Possible partials for Halloween? (x-post /r/fursuit)
Hey fellow furs, I hope this is the right place for posting this request. For my Halloween costume idea I actually need some partials: Ears, tail and paws. Halloween is only nine days away so I need to know if anyone would be able to create these partials or know someone who could in this limited time. Thanks in advance.
submitted by Sabel-Sabertooth[link] [1 comment]
Searching for a furry that I passed in the hall.
This is at Lindsay Place High School in Pointe-Claire, Québec. She is in grade 7 or 8 and wears a black collar and a rainbow-coloured tail.
I'm not sure if you browse /r/furry, but if you do, please respond to this post.
submitted by Mrocks2000[link] [comment]
[NSFW!!] Anybody knows of great artists that draws weed included masterpieces?
I want some weed smoking commissions of my fursona Wuffie. In order to spend money on the artpiece, I wanna look at it in 5 years and think: "Damn, that was a good investment"
Anyone knows some great artists that gladly would draw stuff like this?
submitted by Ynnor4009[link] [1 comment]
![[link]](http://i.imgur.com/ySPkJta.jpg){kind=link}
![[link]](http://i.imgur.com/Qtf6aud.png){kind=link}