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Winning the Furry Argument with Your Parents by Gaining Their Trust
Hello there! It is I, Zandafrost the Folf, at your service. I have read some of the letters people have sent you, and I found your responses to them quite wise. I decided to go ahead and ask a question of my own.
I used to lurk around the fandom, not sure if it was something I would enjoy for a while, and I finally kind of officially "joined" the fandom last year. As I quickly got more and more into it, I realized that since I am 16, I will need the consent of my parents if I want to go to most any convention, meet, and things like that. I mentioned the fandom to them one day, hoping that they would at least be understanding and accepting, maybe even interested. They were not in the least... Their reaction was one of shock, quickly turning to anger. They couldn't believe that their son could be into something so "weird" and "inappropriate" and I was grounded from electronics for a month or two. I've tried many times to talk to them about it since then and they shut me down every time.
I know they care about me and want me to be safe, and I think that they are scared I am getting myself into something possibly dangerous. My father is a school administrator and my mother is a teacher and they deal with things that involve internet safety a lot. I consider myself to be a smart kid, and I am appropriately cautious of others. I can see why they would have a problem with me suddenly meeting and talking to all these new people that they don't know. However, I think it is a bit of an overreaction to threaten to call the police on one of these friends just because he is 21 years old (a legal adult) and is texting me regularly. They didn't care that I first met him with friends at a school sporting event and not on the internet first, or how respectful he always was to me, and when he offered to come talk to them personally when I told him I wasn't allowed to speak to him anymore, they rejected him. Didn't wanna hear it.
I've tried to explain the fandom to them, I've shown them things, other furs have offered to answer questions or help explain. They don't care and don't want to hear it. I know it is their choice, they are in charge and I don't like to go against them, but this is important to me and they aren't hearing what I'm trying to get them to understand. I can see why they would have a problem, but they seem to be too set in their own views and opinions. I hope I don't sound like I am making my parents the bad guys, but I am starting to get a little frustrated. All I wanted was for them to accept the fandom enough to let me do things and make friends in the furry community. Have I gone about this wrong? Is there something I could be doing differently? Or am I just going to have to put up with my situation until I'm on my own?
I apologize about the wall of text, This has been bothering me for some time and as my story said, I can't get anyone to listen. Thanks for any advice you can give.
hugs and nuzzles,
Zandafrost (age 16)
* * *
Dear Zandafrost,
As you likely know, I’ve addressed the topic of coming out furry to parents many times in this column, as well as what to do with parents who are prejudiced against the fandom. It’s worth addressing the topic again, however, because I have yet to fully discuss the issue of trust.
Papabear has perhaps erred in the past because I’ve always taken this topic as a challenge on how to argue that the furry fandom is not about a bunch of pedophiles and sexaholics taking advantage of teens by luring them in with weird sex. Sometimes we should take a look at this from a more generalized perspective.
Let’s take furry off the table and ask these questions: how do you think your parents would have reacted if you had come out gay to them? How about if you wanted to convert to another religion or announced you were a pagan? What if you asked them about quitting school and pursuing your dream to be an artist in Paris? How about going out alone with a girlfriend at night? What if, even, you simply asked to attend a party at another house and told them parents were supervising it? How much have they restricted you in the past?
In other words, do your parents simply not trust your judgment, regardless of furry? If not, do they have reason not to trust you? Have you been trustworthy in the past? If not, then that is a problem you need to work on with them. If so, then it’s even worse that they don’t trust you even though you’ve given them no reason to feel that way.
Gaining, or regaining, your parents’ trust can be a long road, and the more protective and untrusting your parents are, the longer it is, but in most cases it can be accomplished. Here are some things you can do (this works both for gaining and regaining trust):
If your parents start to see you as a responsible young adult instead of a child, they should begin to loosen the leash. Once you have that established, it is time to restate your case for being a furry. This means learning how to argue effectively.
The big no-no here is to whine and pout and cry out, “You don’t let me do anything!” and that sort of nonsense. We do that when we’re teens because it worked when we were babies and cried to be fed. But that strategy runs it’s course by the time we’re, oh, 6 or 7.
Another error is to say stuff like, “All my other friends are into being furries.” Parents don’t care what other kids do. You’ll often hear the retort, “No child of MINE is going to blah blah blah....”
What do you do, then? First, gather your evidence to support your argument (you can refer to some of my articles here: http://www.askpapabear.com/letters/category/coming%20out%20furry. Especially check out the ones dealing with religious or conservative parents.
Next, don’t let them get away with just saying “no.” Ask them to explain why they feel as they do and ask them to give evidence to support it. However, do not make them feel stupid if they say things you consider to be ignorant (although their solution to punish you by forbidding you to play video games for a month betrays a certain simple-mindedness on their part). Instead, praise them for taking the time to look into furry stuff while pointing out evidence contradicting their ideas.
Here’s a cool trick, too. When talking to them, language is very important! Obviously, don’t use curse words, but, more subtly, avoid words like “you” and “me.” You don’t want to use language that creates the notion of opposing sides. INSTEAD, use “we” and “our” as much as possible. Example: “When we argue like this, it makes us both feel bad. What can we do to come to an agreement so that we all feel like we are getting along?”
Stay on topic. This is about your wanting to be involved in the fandom, not whether or not a 21-year-old is a pedophile (that’s a topic for a different conversation)
Compromise: This discussion doesn’t have to go all your way. If they give a little, be willing to give a little, too.
Persistence: Just because they say “no” the first time, doesn’t mean that they will always say that. If you keep trying, you might wear them down ;-)
Good luck! Stay furry!
Papabear
I used to lurk around the fandom, not sure if it was something I would enjoy for a while, and I finally kind of officially "joined" the fandom last year. As I quickly got more and more into it, I realized that since I am 16, I will need the consent of my parents if I want to go to most any convention, meet, and things like that. I mentioned the fandom to them one day, hoping that they would at least be understanding and accepting, maybe even interested. They were not in the least... Their reaction was one of shock, quickly turning to anger. They couldn't believe that their son could be into something so "weird" and "inappropriate" and I was grounded from electronics for a month or two. I've tried many times to talk to them about it since then and they shut me down every time.
I know they care about me and want me to be safe, and I think that they are scared I am getting myself into something possibly dangerous. My father is a school administrator and my mother is a teacher and they deal with things that involve internet safety a lot. I consider myself to be a smart kid, and I am appropriately cautious of others. I can see why they would have a problem with me suddenly meeting and talking to all these new people that they don't know. However, I think it is a bit of an overreaction to threaten to call the police on one of these friends just because he is 21 years old (a legal adult) and is texting me regularly. They didn't care that I first met him with friends at a school sporting event and not on the internet first, or how respectful he always was to me, and when he offered to come talk to them personally when I told him I wasn't allowed to speak to him anymore, they rejected him. Didn't wanna hear it.
I've tried to explain the fandom to them, I've shown them things, other furs have offered to answer questions or help explain. They don't care and don't want to hear it. I know it is their choice, they are in charge and I don't like to go against them, but this is important to me and they aren't hearing what I'm trying to get them to understand. I can see why they would have a problem, but they seem to be too set in their own views and opinions. I hope I don't sound like I am making my parents the bad guys, but I am starting to get a little frustrated. All I wanted was for them to accept the fandom enough to let me do things and make friends in the furry community. Have I gone about this wrong? Is there something I could be doing differently? Or am I just going to have to put up with my situation until I'm on my own?
I apologize about the wall of text, This has been bothering me for some time and as my story said, I can't get anyone to listen. Thanks for any advice you can give.
hugs and nuzzles,
Zandafrost (age 16)
* * *
Dear Zandafrost,
As you likely know, I’ve addressed the topic of coming out furry to parents many times in this column, as well as what to do with parents who are prejudiced against the fandom. It’s worth addressing the topic again, however, because I have yet to fully discuss the issue of trust.
Papabear has perhaps erred in the past because I’ve always taken this topic as a challenge on how to argue that the furry fandom is not about a bunch of pedophiles and sexaholics taking advantage of teens by luring them in with weird sex. Sometimes we should take a look at this from a more generalized perspective.
Let’s take furry off the table and ask these questions: how do you think your parents would have reacted if you had come out gay to them? How about if you wanted to convert to another religion or announced you were a pagan? What if you asked them about quitting school and pursuing your dream to be an artist in Paris? How about going out alone with a girlfriend at night? What if, even, you simply asked to attend a party at another house and told them parents were supervising it? How much have they restricted you in the past?
In other words, do your parents simply not trust your judgment, regardless of furry? If not, do they have reason not to trust you? Have you been trustworthy in the past? If not, then that is a problem you need to work on with them. If so, then it’s even worse that they don’t trust you even though you’ve given them no reason to feel that way.
Gaining, or regaining, your parents’ trust can be a long road, and the more protective and untrusting your parents are, the longer it is, but in most cases it can be accomplished. Here are some things you can do (this works both for gaining and regaining trust):
- Always be honest with your parents; don’t try to hide anything. Most young people think they can outsmart their parents, but they have been around a lot longer than you and, when they were young, probably tried to slip things past their parents; they know most of the tricks, and they know you better than you might think.
- If you promise them that you will do something, do it. Make your word good as gold, or even platinum or diamonds. (Example, if they set a 10pm curfew on a Saturday night, be home at 9:59).
- Listen to what they have to say, and acknowledge it, such as, “I get what your saying; you’re saying that you think if I hang out with this 21-year-old guy he’s going to hurt me somehow. But let me say this....”
- Be financially responsible. Show them that you respect the value of money and don’t blow it all on video games or fast food. Start a savings account; get a part time job.
- Keep your room neat as a pin. This might sound irrelevant, but it shows you are taking responsibility for yourself and not expecting one of your parents to clean up after you. Bonus: do your own laundry; wash the dishes.
- If you make a mistake, admit it and apologize.
- Show appreciation for what they do for you. Thank your mom (or dad) for cooking dinner. Thank them for lending you the car. Thank them for their advice. Bonus: do something nice for them once in a while, and not just for their birthday or Mother’s/Father’s Day.
If your parents start to see you as a responsible young adult instead of a child, they should begin to loosen the leash. Once you have that established, it is time to restate your case for being a furry. This means learning how to argue effectively.
The big no-no here is to whine and pout and cry out, “You don’t let me do anything!” and that sort of nonsense. We do that when we’re teens because it worked when we were babies and cried to be fed. But that strategy runs it’s course by the time we’re, oh, 6 or 7.
Another error is to say stuff like, “All my other friends are into being furries.” Parents don’t care what other kids do. You’ll often hear the retort, “No child of MINE is going to blah blah blah....”
What do you do, then? First, gather your evidence to support your argument (you can refer to some of my articles here: http://www.askpapabear.com/letters/category/coming%20out%20furry. Especially check out the ones dealing with religious or conservative parents.
Next, don’t let them get away with just saying “no.” Ask them to explain why they feel as they do and ask them to give evidence to support it. However, do not make them feel stupid if they say things you consider to be ignorant (although their solution to punish you by forbidding you to play video games for a month betrays a certain simple-mindedness on their part). Instead, praise them for taking the time to look into furry stuff while pointing out evidence contradicting their ideas.
Here’s a cool trick, too. When talking to them, language is very important! Obviously, don’t use curse words, but, more subtly, avoid words like “you” and “me.” You don’t want to use language that creates the notion of opposing sides. INSTEAD, use “we” and “our” as much as possible. Example: “When we argue like this, it makes us both feel bad. What can we do to come to an agreement so that we all feel like we are getting along?”
Stay on topic. This is about your wanting to be involved in the fandom, not whether or not a 21-year-old is a pedophile (that’s a topic for a different conversation)
Compromise: This discussion doesn’t have to go all your way. If they give a little, be willing to give a little, too.
Persistence: Just because they say “no” the first time, doesn’t mean that they will always say that. If you keep trying, you might wear them down ;-)
Good luck! Stay furry!
Papabear
![[Vivienne M] The wait was worth it.](http://b.thumbs.redditmedia.com/m_fNSb4fvtqanH7gFmGvcHczjEnaRw__GPH-b7SmjEA.jpg "[Vivienne M] The wait was worth it.")
Johnny Depp’s wolf and San FURancisco pics. Furry Newsdump (10-30-14)
Here’s links, headlines and little bites of news to make your tail wag. Story tips are always welcome. _____________________________ In the Media _____________________________ Cons in the news: Anthropomorphic arts, beautiful beasts, and clever critters at Fur Reality 2014 – (From Furrymedia). Oklacon covered as “The world’s largest outdoor furry convention“. Furries wearing their suits during the parade at #oklacon […]
Categories: News
Does anyone know any good artists doing cheap/free art?
It's been more than a year since the last art I got of my character, and I really want to get some more!
As a side note, I wouldn't mind banding together with someone to get a picture with both of our characters. Naughty or otherwise!
I'm a university student, so my budget isn't especially high...
submitted by DoctorConnie[link] [26 comments]
Categories: News
Wanting some clean art of character (nsfw)
I have a ref sheet of my character which I payed $20 for and was wondering if any of you artists out there. Could perharps make me a clean image of my character ? Something I could use for either skype,steam,teamspeak or forums.
submitted by All_Fanastical_Image[link] [3 comments]
Categories: News
A champagne pink fox (cross post from /r/aww)
Categories: News
Abuse against man in “tiger porn” case shows contempt for rights.
This story was shared all over the place as comedy news. It made front page on Reddit, with amused links to r/fursuit. It made a traffic bump that passed through other links to this site. You may have already read it, laughed, and moved on. One guy didn’t, though. Man cleared of owning ‘extreme porn’ after tiger in sex video revealed […]
Categories: News
A Little Fursuit Advice for a Young Newbee
Author: Hey, Papabear, I am a new furry in the fandom and so far so good. I made my first partial suit and for some reason my handler wasn’t paying attention. Five kids literally hit, stepped on, and pulled my tail. How can I quickly respond to this chaos without making the parents think I’m […]
Categories: News
The Fin-and-Yote Show - Welcome to the fin-and-yote show, that time on WagzTail when your favorite wolfin and coyote duo take over the empty studio! In this episode, we discuss food, the weather, work life, and everything in-between. - You really don't wa
Welcome to the fin-and-yote show, that time on WagzTail when your favorite wolfin and coyote duo take over the empty studio! In this episode, we discuss food, the weather, work life, and everything in-between.
You really don’t want to miss this one.
Metadata and Credits WagzTail Season 3 Episode 43Runtime: 30m
Cast: Levi, Wolfin
Editor: Levi
Format: 128kbps ABR split-stereo MP3 Copyright: © 2014 WagzTail.com. Some Rights Reserved. This podcast is released by WagzTail.com as CC BY-ND 3.0. If distributed with a facility that has an existing agreement in place with a Professional Rights Organisation (PRO), file a cue sheet for 30:00 to Fabien Renoult (BMI) 1.67%, Josquin des Pres (BMI) 1.67%, WagzTail.com 96.67%. Rights have been acquired to all content for national and international broadcast and web release with no royalties due.
Podcast image belongs to Robert Linder. Used with permission.
Categories: Podcasts
Me Practicing Posing with character Lina
Categories: News
Simians, Leather, and Chrome
It’s time we caught up with The Humans. Which is to say Keenan Marshall Keller and Tom Neely’s new full-color comic book series from Image. Take the violent biker culture of the early 1970′s. Set it in dusty Bakersfield, California. And make the protagonists all walking, talking, humanoid apes. In leather. On big bikes. There you go. “The Humans is one long and twisted ride through biker gang warfare, drug running, corrupt cops, semi-truck hijackings, Vietnam flashbacks, Skin Fights (homosapien cockfighting), major ultra-violence, a strip club called The Forbidden Zone, and bloody vengeance.” Sounds like quite a party. Check out the interview with the creators over at The Nerdist, and look for the first issue to come out this November.
Image c. 2014 Image Comics
Categories: News
![[link]](http://i.imgur.com/tNJbAve.jpg){kind=link}
![[link]](http://i.imgur.com/kxVDEBi.png){kind=link}
Furry Halloween commission special! $5!
I have lost my mind and now art is only $5! This will only last until Halloween is over, and I won't be doing Halloween art after that.
Gallery full of examples can be found here.
Four commissions and I get ORAS! After that point, art will be FREEEEEEEEEEEE until after Halloween.
submitted by Greypuppy[link] [comment]
Categories: News
I'm trying to make my first fursuit mask and I really need help.
Okay so I've been working on this for several hours and I think its honestly going really well except that something just doesn't look right to me I think it's the narrowness of the muzzle (which I'm going to fix) and/or the bucket-shaped head.
http://imgur.com/a/EkzYL She is intended to be a White tailed deer, so I'm trying not to bulk things out too much but if I need to I trust your judgement.
submitted by skyfure[link] [2 comments]
Categories: News
Review: ‘God of Clay’, by Ryan Campbell
Author: Fred The cover bears the line, The Fire Bearers: Book One, letting you know it ends on a cliffhanger. It is, in fact, the first volume of a trilogy. In the prehistoric past, when men shared the world with anthropomorphized animal-gods, there were two very different brothers in a tribe. Clay, the older brother, respects […]
Categories: News