Fur Affinity owner Dragoneer, 44, dies after acute illness
In the final hours of August 6, furry art community Fur Affinity released a brief news post announcing that its owner, Dragoneer, had passed away, after a nasty respiratory disease that he had posted about publicly on social media. During this time the purple Digimon gave a hopeful prognosis on his last Fur Affinity journal, believing he’d recover in one to two months, but also showing how serious the situation was on Bluesky with anxiety about getting appointments as the condition worsened. A July 15 post indicated he had suffered pneumonia-like symptoms since mid-June, but didn’t seek help prior; likely fearing the cost, being uninsured.
Sean “Dragoneer” Piche was a foundational individual in a new generation of furry community leaders, fostering a struggling art site called Fur Affinity to a dominant position in the fandom - as well as promoting and later taking over responsibility for a companion convention, FA: United, before COVID-19 caused the difficult decision to permanently cancel the con.
Fur Affinity - a fandom's legacy
Fur Affinity launched in January 2005 - a month prior to YouTube and a year before Twitter - joining the ranks of sites born within the Web 2.0 era. It was also the year that the site TheFaceBook became known as simply Facebook. Fur Affinity started to catch on more with furries in the late noughties, taking traffic as sites like SheezyArt and y!Gallery tightened their content restrictions. The site was able to blend the blogging features of sites such as then furry-favorite LiveJournal, mixing it with an art posting and sharing service.
Similar to “the” Facebook, furry’s up-and-coming social and art site had a bit of a kerfuffle over ownership as it grew. The 2007 transfer was tumultuous, with conflict between Dragoneer and Alkora Husky coming to a head in July when an inner scuffle caused the site to redirect for an hour - with Alkora claiming the site was being stolen out from under him, while Dragoneer noted he was paying most of the bills. By December that year, the two came to an agreement and Dragoneer bought the site from Alkora, giving him clear ownership of the site.
As the site expanded, it became quite a task to maintain and even harder to make updates or implement new features. Many ambitious projects to update the site met fantastical, and sometimes drama-filled failures. You can read more about those in the stories listed in the next section.
In spite of these, Fur Affinity provides some nuanced additions that can’t be found elsewhere, even today. A primary example is the deceased (∞) status when a user passes on. This works well with the site’s purpose of being a portfolio of works that represents the user rather than a pure social media service. That very status has now been applied to the site’s recently passed owner. When a user is flagged as deceased users can no longer follow them, as there are no updates expected, but they can view and leave a shout on their wall like an online gravestone to visit in remembrance.
In the mid-2010s the site remained the strongest furry fandom-focused site. In 2012 a Flayrah poll indicated it was the most preferred site amongst furries. Many rivals would be created or modified to try and take their portion of the furry user base. Yiffstar renamed itself to SoFurry in 2009 and implemented new community features. Inkbunny launched offering artists the opportunity to sell prints and digital downloads before being caught out by the same payment issues that dogged FA - which subsequently pushed the huddled masses of those excluded onto these two sites; giving Inkbunny in particular guaranteed traffic, but an unshakeable reputation for controversial work. And Weasyl tried to appeal to artists with its launch in 2012.
But interestingly, some furry sites came about due to decisions made by Fur Affinity in fears of it changing in ways that were deemed as harmful to expression in the fandom. In particular, Furry Network’s announcment came out on the foot of Fur Affinity being sold to IMVU back in 2015.
To the very end Dragoneer succeeded in maintaining the site’s standing as one of the highest for user submitted content in the fandom. It may have been equalled or surpassed in views by another furry site called e621, whose robust tagging system made browsing art quicker and more streamlined than Fur Affinity's artist/user portfolio-based system. But is the ease for the art consumer worth the loss of the recognition of the artist having a hub to call their own - or control over how and whether it is displayed at all? That’s not a question for this article, but it's definitely one thing that distinguishes Fur Affinity and its compatriots from imageboards.
As the 2010s became the 2020s, Fur Affinity's stagnation has become an unspoken change in the fandom. An observant person will note that other than the last three journals Dragoneer posted to the site about his concerning health condition this past month, he had not posted a journal since November 2022, instead preferring to socialize on the site formerly known as Twitter or more frequently Bluesky after Twitter was Xed. A similar thing happened with myself. Others started to use dedicated social media platforms and messaging programs such as Telegram and Discord as main hubs to communicate. However, Fur Affinity remains an important place to see artists' work, both new and old, on their own personally-curated accounts.
Some furs are now concerned about the future of FA given the owner’s passing. A few have recommended archiving so as to preserve works should the site be lost. However, the current staff continue to work diligently and don't see any near-term changes to the site. That said, it's a good idea for creatives to self-archive their work using portable hard drives along with posting in multiple cloud or site services should time and money allow.
Fur Affinity on Flayrah - the Dragoneer Era (2007 to 2024)
Almost every fur will have stories about how FA has contributed to their life in the fandom. My very first story for Flayrah dealt with a 2011 conflict between Fur Affinity and FurBuy over the holding of informal auctions within the comment section on FA. One which he would respond to in a note on Fur Affinity to try and highlight his position more. I recently left a comment on that article of the note he sent me in Fur Affinity in response to that, and looking back at his words and mine from that time I did kind of cringe at my campy verbiage I put in closing. They say never look at your old works. But we all get started somewhere.
Below is a list of all the articles written about decisions made by Dragoneer and Fur Affinity that were covered here on Flayrah. It shows how each year brought its own challenges, and that in spite of it all the site filled its purpose and helped the fandom prosper during its continual growth in the 2010s:
- August 2008 - Fur Affinity is back online [after suffering a month long outage]
- January 2010 - Fur Affinity grows in 2009 despite downtime
- February 2010 - Fur Affinity bans mature loli, shota; restricts unoriginal work
- April 2010 - Fur Affinity helps users fav, watch, delete each other's work
- October 2010 - Fur Affinity comment hiding feature introduced, exploited
- November 2010 - Fur Affinity loses AlertPay account, bans cub porn
- December 2010 - Fur Affinity attack results in privacy violation
- January 2011 - FA turns six; promises new layout, fixes in May
- February 2011 - Heather Bruton, Dragoneer interviewed on 'Muzzle to Muzzle'
- March 2011 - Owners of Fur Affinity, FurBuy clash over auctions
- July 2011 - Furocity staff 'joining forces' with Fur Affinity
- August 2011 - Analysis: Fur Affinity's staff revamped; dev team still lacking
- August 2011 - Fur Affinity's silent test of VigLink causes controversy
- October 2011 - Five Fur Affinity staff resign, some citing leadership failures
- Janurary 2012 - Fur Affinity voted most preferred online art community on Flayrah poll
- April 2012 - Fur Affinity changes thumbnails; more updates promised
- April 2012 - Fur Affinity bug permits huge avatars; former mod banned
- November 2012 - Dragoneer's Dorsai complaints spark FurFright spat
- December 2013 - Fans fret as Fur Affinity nears fifth day of read-only mode
- January 2014 - Fur Affinity bans 'Spam to Win' journals, reposted promos
- Feburary 2014 - Fur Affinity announces Project Phoenix; Weasyl traffic spikes
- May 2014 - Fur Affinity cracks down on 'watchbot' accounts
- October 2014 - Furry websites face broad denial-of-service attacks
- November 2014 - Doing the FA tango; one step forward, two steps back
- March 2015 - IMVU buys Fur Affinity; furry fans respond
- August 2015 - Fur Affinity forum staff abandon their posts, future of forum uncertain
- November 2015 - New art site, Furry Network, sees traffic growth following FA Forum incident
- January 2016 - Fur Affinity loses developer [SilverEagle] after stalls in promised compensation
- January 2016 - Fur Affinity - Users responsible for the actions of commenters
- May 2016 - Fur Affinity restoring from six-day-old backups after server compromised; site source code distributed at BLFC
- September 2017 - Fur Affinity updates code of conduct to disallow hate groups
- December 2017- Fur Affinity administrator resigns amid hate group policy controversy
- December 2020 - FA:United convention closes doors permanently due to COVID-19
- February 2021 - Dragoneer buys back Fur Affinity from IMVU
- September 2022 - Fur Affinity bans artworks generated by artificial intelligence programs
- November 2022 - Fur Affinity informed they are barred from advertising on Twitter following premiere of blue-paw Furrified status
- May 2023 - Fur Affinity expands rules against "youthful appearing" characters in adult works to Pokemon and Digimon characters
Life's work to help others share theirs
Looking through the list, while a good deal of the updates and stories may lean negative or critical, it’s because Fur Affinity was such a keystone to fandom life that many cared enough to analyze its operations, and inform users on how the site-enforced rules. It’s also important to note the saturation of issues brought forth is relatively low for the life of the Dragoneer’s tenure. There are 37 articles listed for the well-over 6,000 days he operated the site. And no, you most likely don’t get weekends off, either - in fact, that’s probably your busiest time.
Some furry communities, especially those that Dragoneer’s harsher critics had gotten "involved" with didn’t even make it past their second year.
Running a community for so long requires commitment and sacrifice, so be sure to thank those that do while they’re still here in any way you can, because one day you will not be able to. Like the deceased status, you can’t follow up with someone once they’re gone. So thank you Dragoneer, for giving it your all and helping furries foster a community online through your service. I'll pray far and wide that you find peace in your well-earned rest.
So long as FA exists, a bit of them will, too. They left their mark on the fandom, no matter how small. Sometimes the most important thing a person can ever say is "I was here." - Dragoneer; May 19th, 2024
About the author
Sonious (Tantroo McNally) — read stories — contact (login required)a project coordinator and Kangaroo from CheektRoowaga, NY, interested in video games, current events, politics, writing and finance
Comments
Unlike dronon's more personable story about Taral Wayne, I didn't have as much rapport with Dragoneer so the story mostly focused on the legacy from his work in life. But people are more than their work, so if you have any personal stories to share feel free to do so in the comments below.
No one person can tell the full story, let alone in a few days. Hopefully those who try in recent days will be collected.
This story focuses on FA as his legacy, and that's fair enough, being quite an achievement; as someone on IB said:
We must remember that Dragoneer himself was not, as far as I am aware, a programmer - he was a system administrator - and thus he was not in a position to directly address any deficiencies in FA's codebase, nor to formally evaluate prospective contributors. This doubtless impacted the site, but may also have helped in the long run because he was forced to recruit a team for that purpose. He was also a furry artist (NSFW work), and this may have influenced many of his decisions - as could those he relied on around him. Frankly, few can appreciate the pressures of the job.
Some will perhaps suggest he might not have been the right fur for the job - just the one who happened to be in the right place at the right time. The thing to ask, of course, is would you a) have done any better, and b) chosen to spend the best part of two decades of your life/funds doing it?
I think he was trying to do what he thought was right to keep FA online, with viable staffing, sufficient hardware, funding, etc. And it has stayed up, most of the time, despite criticisms about certain ideals it left behind on the way. A lot of other sites fell by the wayside in that time.
Regardless of how he made his calls, they had a significant impact - and some feel many of them damaged the fandom. But you also have heartfelt stories about how he helped out fellow site-runners in need. Many are just shocked - sure, he'd spoken of health issues, but nobody expected this. I was surprised, too; he was only two years older than me. Perhaps linked to his work, decades ago - more likely just bad luck and no NHS.
We had differences, but they were 'business, not personal' - at least, that's how I saw it, and I hope he did, too. Sad, and too soon.
I only had a little personal contact with Dragoneer, pretty much ending when he banned me from FA. Most of it was in relation to my criticisms I published on Flayrah and he was not happy with them or the site. I think I do put less personal blame on him for the troubles of FA. For one thing, it is a major site and it couldn't have been easy to keep it going, especially while being constantly criticised (even if you valid criticism) from all sides.
After spending several years as an admin on a smaller site, I also recognise that it's possible that many of his decisions were forced. A leader sometimes has to make changes due to outside pressure or because the leadership structure is united in a certain view even if it doesn't fit one's own view. Those criticisms are the hardest to take. In one of my recent pieces I quoted Dragoneer as having a past view that was very similar to my own. I don't know whether his views really changed or practical challenges forced him to adopt contrary policies. I guess I'll hope it's the latter.
There is a bit of bitterness when I hear that as long as FA exists, a bit of the former users exists. I had many submissions on FA but I learned that at some point in the last two years or so, they were all deleted. I have no idea why. I doubt it was personal. Perhaps it was an automated action after an account has been suspended for 10 years.
His death came as a huge shock for me as I didn't even know he had been sick. He was too young to die and, for whatever faults he had, he was a huge presence in the fandom that did a lot of good. I didn't wish for him to go the way he did and I think it's terrible how some people celebrate the deaths of others. I wish his friends and family all the best during this time and thank him for the good things that he did do.
PS: For the list of articles, you missed out Doing the FA tango; one step forward, two steps back where I discussed Dragoneer's controversial staff appointments as well as generously donating some of their funds to SoFurry.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
~John Stuart Mill~
After spending several years as an admin on a smaller site, I also recognize that it's possible that many of his decisions were forced. A leader sometimes has to make changes due to outside pressure or because the leadership structure is united in a certain view even if it doesn't fit one's own view.
When e621 passed its New Policies, I and many others in The Announcement Thread put the blame and suspicion squarely on the E6 staffers. My personal line of thinking was that there are people among E6's staff hierarchy who outright despise Cub / L0li / Sh0ta and want it all gotten rid of.
But maybe they really weren't lying and the choice was forced by outside circumstances...
Dragoneer's own personal feelings going back to 2006 was very Pro Artwork, many of the e6 staff are also Pro Artwork... but when a payment processor is breathing fire down your neck, I guess it's either conform too what your Masters want or lose funding / hosting... I'm just an outsider, I don't know what goes on behind the scenes in terms of managing a massive furry art website like E6, FA, or IB... if the choice was forced on them, then I guess I can't hate as much I want to... since they were "just following orders."
I can say "But if I ran the website, I'd tell those grouchy anti freedom of art assholes to kiss my ass" but I don't, I don't run it -- and likely in the face of having to choose between conceding to power or total destruction, I guess I would probably choose concession, even though I would absolutely ~HATE IT~ and feel like I "sold out."
I'd like to think that if I was in that same position, I would fight harder for what I believe -- but maybe it's more complicated... FA is more than just an Art Gallery, it's a Time Capsule, and to simply set fire to a Time Capsule just because I didn't get my way would seem incredibly selfish and petty...
Personal Feelings and "keeping the platform afloat" aren't always compatible.
.....................
https://web.archive.org/web/20150821170440/https://forums.FurAffinity.net/thread...
https://e621.net/forum_topics/45501
.....................
"At what point does the responsibility become OURS and not that individual's? We cannot be held responsible for the actions of people who have pre-existing mental issues..."
https://web.archive.org/web/20150821170436/https://forums.furaffinity.net/thread...
That is a sentiment I agree with strongly... Artists shouldn't be treated like criminals because they "drew or wrote something Problematic." It's as goofy as blaming the Beatles for Charles Manson, it's as goofy as blaming DOOM or Marilyn Manson for Columbine. What should we do? Plug up every outlet in every person's house because a baby might stick a fork in an open electrical socket?
“Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it.”~~ Mark Twain
...
"The Law is a huge blunt weapon that does not and will not make distinctions between what you find acceptable and what you don't..... If there is something you consider indefensible, and there is something you consider defensible, and the same laws can take them both out, you are going to find yourself defending the indefensible." ~~Neil Gaiman
...
Even Bsky is changing to become a lot more Pro Censorship, I hate it.
https://ibb.co/Y2kMmcK
IT'S INFURIATING....
Yaaaay! Downvotes!!!
Kiss My Keister, Kiwi Kreeps.
KF sucks, 4chan sucks.
Near / Byuu did nothing wrong...
....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEDoc4iXnk0
Shi wa naze... otozureru?
Doko ka de... fureta kotoba
Kasaneru... kotae ga
Itazura... ni furasu ame
Kimi yo -- sayonara
Furikaeranai... hitomi
Omoi... kogareta
Seseragu toki
Mimi wo -- sumasu
Kanaerarenai yume ni
Owari wo kakushiteta kara
Kono hi ga -- subarashiki hi de arimasu you ni
Kimi sae ga...
............
Why does death come?
Hearing that saying before somewhere
The same answer rains down mischievously
Goodbye to you
The eyes won't look back
To have loved passionately
Listening closely to hear the murmur
I was hiding the end in the dream unconquered
Hoping that this day will be a wonderful day
If you would just...
....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XPYi2NVWr4
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/aint-afraid-die-aint-afraid-die.html
....
Hey! Smile at me! Don't cry anymore
From now on, I will be always watching you
Atop the gently sloping hill, the snow slowly falls,
even though I know it cannot reach you;
yet I now leave one of the flowers you love in your room...
The light quietly floods the downtown with white
That is the last season colour that you saw
Tears fall, reality is cruel, is it not?
That is the last season colour that you saw
The four seasons' colours, along with yours too,
will end up disappearing; the snow melts,
a flower blooms on a street corner
All the "tints" that you saw are softly vanishing
On the day of this year's last snow....
Fuck Off Kiwi Farms Freaks
(also, anyone who doesn't love Dir en grey is a p.o.s.)
For those wondering about some of Dragoneer's more questionable personal administration attitudes.
(Text, in case it gets taken down, a leaked private message on FA from Dragoneer to a user:
http://i43.tinypic.com/35ndlk6.jpg
The anti-zoo crowd is trying to take you down. Just a warning to keep RL/whatever off FA. I know yer into it, but we have an "don't ask/don't tell" thing around about it here unless it's brought onto the site. They're sorta digging for anything they can find though (They sent me the above thing).
So, just an FYI.)
My dude, Tinypic has been offline for 5+ years and Archive.org didn't save much from it. That's a serious allegation. Is there another source?
....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9WZeQ2feFg
I don't know why I give in, but I do every time
And here I am wondering why I did it again
"Too-re-ay, too-re-o, too-re-ay, too-re-o, too-re-ay", that's what I say
To keep me going, to keep the shit away
I don't know what it is, every time you're near, I fear you
And I forget myself....
.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNTpXGnHAO4
Ooh, I'll wake up to any sound of engines
Every gull a seeking craft
I can't keep my eyes open
Wish I had my radio...
I'd tune into some friendly voices
Talking about stupid things
I can't be left to my imagination
Let me be weak, let me sleep
And dream of sheep...
Ooh, their breath is warm
And they smell like sleep
And they say they take me home
Like poppies, heavy with seed
They take me deeper and deeper...
....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RakusC4m3io
This little girl inside me
Is retreating to her favorite place
Go into the garden, go under the ivy
Under the leaves, away from the party
Go right to the rose, go right to the white rose
(For me)
I sit here in the thunder, the green on the grey
I feel it all around me
And it's not easy for me to give away a secret
It's not safe
But go into the garden, go under the ivy
Under the leaves, away from the party
Go right to the rose, go right to the white rose
(For me)
Go into the garden, go under the ivy
Go under the leaves for me
Go right to the rose, go right to the white rose
I'll be waiting for you...
It wouldn't take me long to tell you how to find it...
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZUkTtAsv4A
Woo-hoo, the time is getting closer
Oo-hoo, time to be a ghost
Oo-hoo, every day we're getting closer
The sun is getting dim
Will I pay for who I've been?
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt9IkhdRK30
Years go by, will I still be waiting
For somebody else to understand?
Years go by if I'm stripped of my beauty
And the orange clouds raining in my head
Years go by, will I choke on my tears
'Til finally, there is nothing left?
One more casualty, you know
We're too easy, easy, easy...
....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw431cX0mgQ
I run off where the drifts get deeper
Sleeping beauty trips me with a frown
I hear a voice: "You must learn to stand up
For yourself, cause I can't always be around"
He says:
"When you gonna make up your mind?
When you gonna love you as much as I do?
When you gonna make up your mind?
'Cause things are gonna change so fast
All the white horses are still in bed
I tell you that I'll always want you near
You say that things change, my dear"
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6z2wE8ECao
I remember, yes...
In my peach party dress
No one dared
No one cared to tell me
Where the pretty girls are
Those demigods..
With their ~NINE INCH NAILS~
And little fascist panties
Tucked inside the heart of every nice girl!
>> Dronon
(if you are wondering why the heck I'm Kate Bush spamming you & Tori Amos spamming you, it's because I saw a repost in your twitter, figured you'd appreciate it... or not).
There's not really much I can say about this since all I can really do is give a neutral stance due to not knowing Dragoneer on a personal enough level, but I can't deny he had a major impact in the furry community, especially online. Health issues can be cruel, especially when you're holding onto hope that you'll remiss, and then it turns out to be a condition with a significant mortality rate. He certainly had a long running history with the site, having owned and administered it the longest out of anyone since the buyout. A lot of people are wondering what this could mean for the future of Fur Affinity.
Sciggles has put a GoFundMe up to cover various expenses, including $27,000 of medical charges, a month of FA's costs (estimated at $20,000...), $17,000 due to IMVU for FA (apparently it wasn't paid off just yet), six months' of mortgage for Dragoneer's house, and $15,000 to cover various funeral and celebratory costs - totalling a target of $75,000.
At the time I write this, four hours in, it had 997 donations at $77,784 - including $10,000 supposedly from Bad Dragon.
https://www.amazon.com/Pokemon-Jynx-36-83-Generations/dp/B01BZE9H2G
I noticed that too, and I wasn't sure if I should believe it or not, so I just ignored the donation. I guessed that Sciggles might be running the site, albeit temporarily. I might donate to the gofundme when I'm not busy.
I happily donated. I don't want Dragoneer's poor mother saddled with his medical debts and funeral costs.
On the other hand, if Dragoneer's 'management' of FA left the site tens of thousands of dollars in debt, then I don't see how FA is sustainable without significant changes.
Probably through the shinies system. It is one of the larger art sharing sites for the furry community, so I doubt it'll plummet anytime soon, so long as there's no future depts in need to be taken care of. I donated $5 which I know isn't much, but I hope it will help somewhat. I know what it's like to be in a tight financial situation.
It's more than the average FA user, I'm sure. Still, they're $60,000 short and donations appear to be slowing, and they can't expect to do one of these every month to get another $20,000.
One path forward might be to take a slice of Patreon/SubscribeStar's market. IB had a system whereby you could sell prints and digital downloads - probably the latter would be best to focus on nowadays. Some people will clearly pay to support their favourite content creators. But if FA goes down that route there's likely to be far more scrutiny by payment processors of the content being purchased, whereas right now it appears less transactional.
If they charge every registered user just $1 a month to use the platform, they'd have their monthly operating costs.
Apparently the GoFundMe has jumped in funds from over $176,500 just before the domain hack after midnight 8/21/24 to $193,187 as of this comment. I wouldn't be surprised if it crossed over 200k by the weekend.
As mentioned in the other story, FA met its increased funding goal. And they're going to need it, because the estimated costs - mostly debts - have jumped rapidly, as detailed on pages 5-6 of this update dated September 1.
To summarise, FA's physical hosting is $5,200/month. Current site contractors are $12,300/month. They pay $260/month for CDN and $90/month for email. So monthly operating costs are $17,850 or thereabouts - contractors being the largest part.
For comparison, Inkbunny's hosting+CDN is ~$320/month, 17 times lower than $5,200. This isn't too surprising because FA's latest submission ID is ~58,000,000, 16.6 times IB's 3,489,000 Total Pages/Files. (OK, so this doesn't count deleted submissions on FA's side, but IB's 2,492,000 current submissions wouldn't count the files and its highest submission ID 3,417,000 is about the same, so let's roll with it.)
The killer is the debt, for which I'm rounding figures slightly for readability (interest will increase anyway). There's $36,250 for prior contract work, plus $1,500 paid last month. PayPal Working Credit is $32,000. A business line of credit is $13,500. The amount owed to IMVU has ballooned to $83,000 (presumably including this). Dragoneer owed the IRS $6,100 for 2022 (and they don't even know 2023 but it wouldn't be unreasonable for it to be similar). And he had a total of $74,755 in debt from 12 credit and personal loan providers. So we're talking $164,100 in debt, maybe $170,000 adding in 2023 taxes. This doesn't count recent medical expenses, for which $40,000 has been given to his mother.
At an rate of, say, 7.5% (base +2%) that debt means ~$12,300 a year in interest alone. It's unlikely the credit cards are that low, although it's possible IMVU might waive it on their end to balance it out (and PayPal may include it). Add in the $40,000 above and $12,000 for ~6 months of mortgage and they're already $5,000 over the ~$217,000 raised after fees, not counting $11,000 estimated funeral/celebration costs.
So hopefully they can figure out which debt is the most expensive and address that first. After that, close to $20,000 a month expenses? Depends on whether the contractors are just for transition or a permanent budget line item. Either way, it's a lot of FA+ subscriptions.
Love how modern debt companies go full on Orwellian with names like "Prosper" and "Upstart"
A fundraiser has been started on GoFundMe and has reached its goal of $75,000. Bad Dragon is top donator at $10,000.
They list some figures in the summary about the expenses they expect to pay with them and have the monthly FA cost at $20k, though they may be factoring in legal costs of having the site transferred along with the monthly payment.
They also estimated that he still owed 17k on the buyback of Fur Affinity from IMVU.
They've updated the goal as of 08/15/24 after uncovering more personal/family and site-specific debts and bills. Updated GoFundMe goal is $221,800, of which $159,043 has been donated out of 2.8k donations from 582 total individual donors.
As I said to a skunk, it's not that surprising that there was significant debt involved, just sad to think that it may have dissuaded Dragoneer from seeking prompt medical treatment and thus contributed to his death.
The scale of the monthly payments is significant and I can't help but think there has to be some way to cut them down. Then again if it really requires the monster server they bought, it'll need co-location and that tends to be pricey especially for higher-power servers.
As they have increased the request the furry lawyer bluesky has been a bit wary: https://bsky.app/profile/buddygoodboyesq.bsky.social/post/3kzsv2acrbo24
I'm of the opinion that they should set up a Fur Affinity Foundation ASAP (whenever that can be) to then acquire Frost Dragon LLC as a wholly-owned subsidiary and then raise further funding. I'm thinking of this in the same vein as how Mozilla Foundation (a 501(c)3 established in 2003) established Mozilla Corporation in 2005 as a wholly-owned, taxable, for-profit subsidiary.
F.A. should re-structure itself to be more similar to e6 or IB -- and by that I mean, re-code the website to have a functioning Blacklist and Tagging system, which is what 'Neer proposed doing back in 2006... and then un-do all the goofy rules like "No Cub" and "No Short Pokemon" and go hard in the paint for the E6 approach: "Don't like it? Add it to your Blacklist so you don't have to see it and STFU about it."
I don't know anything about the guy but I'm glad to stand up for him on his behalf considering that folks still have the nerve to sh** on him even after he died because he didn't want to host risky content on HIS website. Countries across the world are cracking down on that kind of art now, regardless of if that is a good thing or not. He saw the writing on the wall. He was smart to steer clear of that kind of controversy considering the political climate that artists are having to deal with these days.
The best thing furries can do now in the middle of this world anti-intellectual anti-art hysteria is just act "wholesome" until the madness dies down. We're being targeted by right wing governments across the world now thanks to the likes of alt-right morons going around calling us groomers. It's all bullshit, but we have to live to tell the tale of this oppression. Dragoneer didn't oppress anyone...he didn't want to get in trouble, and there's nothing AT ALL wrong with that in my view.
Some days I feel like I was born in the wrong time. I often feel that if I was born a thousand years later, maybe we all wouldn't have to deal with art police. Or maybe the art police would be an ever-present enemy by then. Hard to say, but I get the urge to just bury my art in some sort of time capsule and hope to god someone someday will be able to appreciate it. We're living through tough times as a species. The furry community is too good for this world.
I don't know anything about the guy but I'm glad to stand up for him on his behalf considering that folks still have the nerve to sh** on him even after he died because he didn't want to host risky content on HIS website.
...
http://web.archive.org/web/20070111083224/http://www.nothingkat.com/downloads/FA...
...
Behold, excerpts from a leaked conversation among 'Neer and his F.A. mod staff:
Pinkuh – ""I don't draw it, I don't like it, and I tend to not view it unless I have to, however, I am ~NOT~ going to limit our users' Freedom of Artistic Expression. Because when it comes to censorship, nobody can draw the line.""
'Neer – ""I hate the crap immensely myself."" (Bro, you had artwork in Softpaw Magazine, don't cap / lie like that).
'Neer – """"We have chaos because a lot of people hate something that IS NOT ILLEGAL… and a lot of people want us to block that. But, likewise, we have a lot of people who believe it should stay."""
'Neer – """Well, we have two choices, both suck. (1) We ban the art, make a lot of people happy, but also make just as many people pissed off. We show weakness and that people in angry loud mobs can make us change and make rules around their beliefs (aka, the Y! effect). We ban something that is not even illegal, and let the prudes win…."""
'Neer – """(2) We allow the art to stay, in name of artistic freedom – as we choose not to be the judges of what people draw, nor quality. We tell people that it's not our job and for them to police themselves, and we will offer working filters (aka Blacklist / Tagging) to those who disagree with the content and make extended effort to get the filters working."""
Pinkuh – """Technically… Furry artwork as a whole is illegal. If someone really wanted to press it they could play the "Drawing animals, even ones with Human / Bipedal characteristics means they like real animals and want to fuck them."
'Neer – """We have enough proof via U.S. legal documentation to prove that it is (A) not p****philia and (B) not illegal… I am really torn on the issue. I hate cub crap, but I'd rather not ban something that is not actually illegal."""
Damaratus – """Proper working filters will solve the problem."""
'Neer – """And we have ~no~ filters right now."""
Myr – """The new system will have filters, but when will they be coded and when will it be done? Jeeze, it was supposed to be ready MONTHS ago. We're in November already."""
Marthaen – """Filters only work if the user puts the proper tags on it in the first place…. I'll enforce any policy laid down, whether I like it or not… But I'd prefer to ban cub if possible."""
..........
https://web.archive.org/web/20150821170440/https://forums.FurAffinity.net/thread...
..........
'Neer -- In the near future we will implement a series of filters to allow people to block and exclude art of all content types, giving them better control of how they use the Fur Affinity service. A great many people voiced that they felt for and against the art, but would be able to COPE with it, given a proper FILTRATION SYSTEM (Tags & Blacklist) was implemented on the site. We feel that this is the best method possible. Put the control and power in the hands of users for them to choose their own path.
We understand that many of you may not agree with this decision, but we felt that it was in the best interest of the site not to act as moral judges, not to choose for users what is ethically right or wrong. Why should cub art be the ultimate evil, when artistic depictions of rape, murder and drug use, all of which are quite illegal in the real world, are posted with no complaint? When do morals begin and end? Why does one moral high road state that cub art is the end all, be all of evil yet art depicting rape does not get the same brunt of the hate?
......................
https://web.archive.org/web/20150821170436/https://forums.furaffinity.net/thread...
......................
'Neer -- "At what point does the responsibility become ours or that individual's? We cannot be held responsible for the actions of people who have pre-existing mental issues."
GREAT quote, GREAT position!
Blaming art for the actions of delusional psychopaths is like blaming GTA for sk00l sh00tings, or blaming Breaking Bad for drug use. Or blaming Rap Music for Gangs, or blaming Rock and Roll for Satanism. Or blaming DND or MTG or Pokemon for – whatever the fuck some dipshit religious nut thought they made people do…
A person reads a furry comic and they go out and they S.A. their friends, their family members, their pets… is it the furry comic's fault that the person did that crap? No, I don't think the comic is to blame. The person was already mentally deranged to begin with. They didn't need the furry comic's ~HELP~ to be a scumbag…
I think that was the message Dragoneer was trying to get across. That you can't blame ART for the actions of CRAZY PEOPLE… and the day we ~do~ lay the blame solely on ART, and not the people actually doing the CRIMES…. we're gunna have to strip and sanitize EVERYTHING, all because SOME MORON might try to imitate it….
In Dragoneer's position, I would have banned the people causing drama over drawings – NOT ban the ARTWORK, and then later on DOUBLE DOWN on it by banning Short Pokemon under the idiotic belief that a drawing of a Riolu is 100% equal to Sea Pea….
((((granted of course, that probably wasn't even 'Neer's decision, but the decision of some spazzy Twitter / Tumblr Twat that he hired on as a Mod.))))
The best thing furries can do now in the middle of this world anti-intellectual anti-art hysteria is just act "wholesome" until the madness dies down.
My bad, Sharkie, you're on of the GOOD ONES (not a Fiction Equals Reality Freak).
Still tho, I ain't gunna PRETEND for anybody.
I don't hate cub or feral artwork, and I ain't gunna put up an act like I do hate it just to keep from getting witch hunted and burned at the stake by an angry mob of hypocrites, lol...
https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Burned_Furs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T3Xz4s4yUA
............................................
http://web.archive.org/web/20070111083224/http://www.nothingkat.com/downloads/FA...
'Neer -- "I keep flip flopping on the issue, but as an artist... I'm not going to start picking and choosing what people can draw."
Myr -- "I just said leave the cub stuff and let's move on."
'Neer -- "I hate to keep calling votes, but: Leave it, filter it, it's not illegal..."
Damaratus -- "I highly approve of the idea of simply getting a proper working filter and allowing it. If it becomes illegal, then we remove it."
Marthaen -- "I vote no. Remove it."
'Neer -- "So, we ban cub art... but what do we do when the next riot squad demands we remove the next thing they do not like?"
Pinkuh -- "No matter which decision is made, half of the users will hate us and half of them won't. It doesn't matter anymore."
Pinkuh -- "think of it this way... all those artist's threatening to leave? They all have Ego's this is the only place where they will be able to post their adult work."
Pinkuh -- "The amount of "Cub" artwork posted on this website is so miniscule that it shouldn't have generated as much Drama as it did"
Pinkuh -- "Regardless on if we like one form of artwork or another we should allow it. It is not our place to deside what is "Suitable" for an art website unless it deals with REAL legal issues."
..................
I've got nothing to add to your comments. All I know is that other furry art websites are not even doing anything about actual, literal pedophiles on their sites. Then, on the opposite side of the spectrum a place like deviantart won't even allow sexualized art of characters that even so much as "look" like minors, and minor characters cannot be "aged up" to be drawn sexually, either.
It all exhausts me. I'm gonna end up like Emily Dickinson, people finding thousands of pages of unpublished writings and works in drawers after I'm dead. I am misanthropic to the core, I find humanity on the whole to be repulsive though I do have several loyal friends that I am able to speak to freely, and the rest I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire.
Homie chill, did I not just say you wuz one of the ~GOOD~ ones?
And yeah dawg, it's getting weird out there. Websites banning artwork, fiction, imaginary made up shit.
Even e6 bent the knee to the prudes and the fiction police, and so did Blue Sky.
https://e621.net/forum_topics/45501
"""All I know is that other furry art websites are not even doing anything about actual, literal pedophiles on their sites."""
Ink Bunny banned anybody expressing MAP or Zoo views, or anybody flying those flags.
Funny cuz I.B. wuz the website everybody shitted on and called the "p3d0 website" cuz of the Cub Art, but bro, both e621 and I.B. hosted the same shit for yeaaaaarrrrsss.... how come body called e6 the "p3d0 website" or the "d0g fugger website?" they hosted the same content.... lol
People just like to rip on Ink Bunny cuz it's a easy target I guess.
Nope, seen artists with MAP flags on there several times and nothing was done about it. So don't lie.
Green Reaper and others who Mod for I.B. would disagree with you on that.
https://inkbunny.net/j/495413-Inkbunny-amending-inkbunnys-philosophy-of-acceptance
I mean it was the correct move (ban ACTUAL NONCES AND ZOOS, NOT THE CARTOON DRAWINGS) but it took them a long time to implement it... anyways, if Fur Affinity does keep living on, then I hope they IMPLEMENT TAGS AND BLACK LISTS.... it's the only way to keep everybody happy and off each other's backs....
https://www.flayrah.com/8931/tagging-and-filtering-alternative-content-bans
TAGS AND BLACKLISTS, NOT ART BANS BASED ON A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE'S "MORALITY AND ETHICS" AND REFUSAL TO SEPARATE FICTION FROM REALITY....
Like e621 always says: "Learn to use your Blacklist and shut up."
"Don't like it? Add it to your Blacklist."
To be fair there are sometimes legit pedophiles on inkbunny that the staff do not seem to care about like marshax marshmallow. When people reported this person they used the fiction excuse for characters that were blatatly confirmed as being fursonas of real minors and it escalated to marshax actually grooming the same minors they drew porn of.
For example, when I used to be on Inkbunny, I got into an altercation with a user named Pokefound. As per usual with shit like that, I block the person and don't talk to them anymore. They kept talking shit about me online and someone came and told me about it. That person told me that they have indisputable evidence of the person actually fucking children. This pokefound person is fucking popular and basically a pop-u-fur on inkbunny. Then, you've got people on there constantly making violent statements, or statements about how Hitler was sexy, or telling people to kill themselves or that they're gonna kill someone and there are no repercussions for those people whatsoever. I'm sick of being given being PTSD by horrible website owners that cannot moderate their websites.
I'm saying it right now and I'm saying it directly: If the staff of inkbunny doesn't have the time, bandwidth or resources to deal with repulsive behaviors and repulsive people like that, they shouldn't be running a website at all.
I don't even think the people on inkbunny thought I was a fucking furry. Their definition of a furry is someone who constantly jerks off all day until their dick turns red. If that's what a furry is, then fuck all furries. But the way I see it, I am a furry, and they're just sex addicts as far as I care.
Pokefound works at a PUBLIC SCHOOL, by the way, where he apparently finds plenty of victims. So fuck the fucking moral grandstanding from inkbunny users, they literally don't have a leg to stand on as far as that goes.
Neato.
https://www.history.com/news/dr-john-kellogg-cereal-wellness-wacky-sanitarium-tr...
........
Matthew 18:9 -- "If your eye causes you to sin, take it out and throw it away. It is better for you to have only one eye and live forever than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell."
https://www.bibledaily.net/articles/why-did-god-kill-onan-for-spilling-his-semen...
..............
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4mGrNGuJTM
Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
If a sperm is wasted
God gets quite irate
Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found
Hindu, Taoist, Mormon
Spill theirs just anywhere
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care
Here, have some Bill Hicks... I love Bill Hicks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP5aypKB8TU
He's the guy 2 The Ranting Gryphon stole all his comedy material from.
"""Then, you've got people on there constantly making violent statements, or statements about how Hitler was sexy, or telling people to kill themselves or that they're gonna kill someone and there are no repercussions for those people whatsoever.""""
That sounds more like 4chan or Kiwi Farms.... or Twitter (same thing honestly).
""I don't even think the people on inkbunny thought I was a fucking furry.""
Yeah, well, welcome to the world of Elitism In Fandoms.
I got into plenty of dumb arguments with the Japanese Rock Weeaboos on LiveJournal and Batsu and Fukkatsu forum because they didn't think I was "hardcore enough" to be part of their special little Foreign Music Appreciation Club.... when literally all it takes to be a Fan of J-Rock / Visual Kei is simply ENJOYING THE MUSIC... no other extra hoop jumping required. Sorry I don't have the money to spend $40 a pop on rare imported copies of DIR EN GREY CD's and I have to buy the cheaper U.S. re-releases in F.y.e and Hot Topic...
You do know no one chose to be human right? Hating people and even wishing death on them over what they can not change is still pretty messed up and humans are still animals at the end of the day
People like you always feel way more sorry for criminals, rapists and thieves than you do for law abiding citizens. People like you think a person like Kim Jong Un "just needs a friend." That's because you have no moral compass. I will and probably already did surpass you in all endeavors in life because I don't waste my life energies feeling sorry for absolute fucking demons that deserve the ultimate punishment that any society can give to them. You ignore the sane among us so you can label yourself a neoro-divergent pariah worthy of the utmost sympathy from everyone, at the expense of hard working people that actually clean their fucking house instead of expecting their mothers and grandmothers to do it. Fuck you, and fuck your family for raising you to be such a sick person. I don't need approval from fucking devils like you. That's the point. I'll make my own furry website and block your fucking IP address from it.
Edith, you literally feel more sorry for a person who rapes children and treats everyone around him like a fucking dog than you do for child rape victims. I need you to realize just how sick and demented that is. But I know you won't. It's pointless dealing with demons like you. That's what federal prison is for.
You do realize that revenge has nothing to do with justice right?
Literal first world countries actually focus on respecting humanity and actually help these people change rather than cause them to reoffend like what us prisons and us society normally caused.
And if you are seriously one of those people to tell human beings to die because of their past, even if its a horrible past, you are just stooping down. You aren't better.
Looks like someone has been playing with FA's CloudFlare account or the third-party DNS provider it's linked to.
Welp, time to bump up the GoFundMe again, I guess!
I have a pretty solid suspicion that there may not be a continuation plan or operating document for Frost Dragon Art that was filed with PA, and that one of the reasons the FA team is having trouble getting control of the situation is because the registered agent for the LLC is gone and no one else may have legal authority to act in the LLC's name.
That explains the (now deleted) tweets from the FA account alledging that the provider is not giving access or freezing/locking down the account from whatever third party is involved.
I suspect the provider doesn't know who is or is not the rightful owner of this, and that there may not actually BE a rightful owner at this point in time.
FA's Twitter account has been hijacked (potentially via control of the domain and thus its email handling) and moved to @ilovekiwi4lunch, a reference to Kiwi Farms. The original handle has been re-registered.
nah really thanks for the hyperlink I could barely tell
We get some readers who aren't au fait with every aspect of Internets culture.
I can only assume with Dragoneer gone and everyone dealing with funeral planning and fundraising and the uncertainty of what's going to happen, nobody's paying attention to the site security and someone is taking a huge advantage of it.
They seem to have wrested control back for now (perhaps Network Solutions finally woke up and smelt the burnt fur).
Edit (22 Aug): FA's Twitter account was restored and back at its original name in the late hours of Wednesday.
A friend of mine pointed me to a long discussion of the Fur Affinity kidnapping saga on a site called SpaceBattles.
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/furaffinity-url-hijacked-dns-level-do-no...
One funny thing that was said there by a poster was that the person who orchestrated this hack has enraged the entire furry community--many of whom are IT professionals--AND the doxxing site Kiwifarms.
That's like knocking over a row of Hell's Angels motorcycles and dinging the limousines of the Mafia parked next to them.
Anyway, that article is on a somewhat neutrally-aligned message board, so you might find some additional information there, while FA is on lockdown.
It's okay, the hacker can win them all back by dancing to the song "Tequila" on a bar stand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BodXwAYeTfM
That one is too short and lacks the surrounding context.
(Pee Wee knocked over all their motorbikes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDb00Mx7D7g
YUH DAT DADDA DAT DAT, DAT DAT...
TUH-KEEL-UH!
dragoneer is burning in hell with that homo lowtax
Post new comment